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	<title>Comments on: what the Dunning-Kruger effect is and isn&#8217;t</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/</link>
	<description>...or you get no soup for one year!</description>
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		<title>By: The Dunning–Kruger Effect</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-4430</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dunning–Kruger Effect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-4430</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/" rel="nofollow">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-3336</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-3336</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post, and the great commentaries.  I&#039;m immediately reminded of the recently reported fact that American students have the lowest math scores in all areas except confidence where they outscore all other nations.  In this case, I&#039;m afraid, the least competent seems to have the highest assessment of themselves.  I take this as very bad news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post, and the great commentaries.  I&#8217;m immediately reminded of the recently reported fact that American students have the lowest math scores in all areas except confidence where they outscore all other nations.  In this case, I&#8217;m afraid, the least competent seems to have the highest assessment of themselves.  I take this as very bad news.</p>
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		<title>By: Leadership, Intangibles and Talent Review Q2 2010 &#124; Four Groups&#039; Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1822</link>
		<dc:creator>Leadership, Intangibles and Talent Review Q2 2010 &#124; Four Groups&#039; Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1822</guid>
		<description>[...] those who like to get into the detail, Dunning Kruger is discussed in another blog entry from a sceptical Tal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] those who like to get into the detail, Dunning Kruger is discussed in another blog entry from a sceptical Tal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert D. Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1652</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert D. Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1652</guid>
		<description>Do you think that this effect is relevant for older adult perceptions of memory deficits. The worse performers feel that they are OK versus those with memory function that is actually above average, worry more deeply about performance issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think that this effect is relevant for older adult perceptions of memory deficits. The worse performers feel that they are OK versus those with memory function that is actually above average, worry more deeply about performance issues?</p>
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		<title>By: devadatta</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>devadatta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The DK effect obtains even if respondents are promised up to $100 for accurate assessments.&lt;/i&gt;

The question is whether that assessment task demand more than trivial cognitive ability. In that case, monetary rewards will do no good, as discussed in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this research presentation&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The DK effect obtains even if respondents are promised up to $100 for accurate assessments.</i></p>
<p>The question is whether that assessment task demand more than trivial cognitive ability. In that case, monetary rewards will do no good, as discussed in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc" rel="nofollow">this research presentation</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: The better-than-average driver (and who isn&#8217;t?) &#124; Xenophilious &#124; Psychology &#124; Science</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1602</link>
		<dc:creator>The better-than-average driver (and who isn&#8217;t?) &#124; Xenophilious &#124; Psychology &#124; Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 01:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1602</guid>
		<description>[...] Update 20100708: What the Dunning-Kruger effect is and isn&#8217;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Update 20100708: What the Dunning-Kruger effect is and isn&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rolf Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1600</link>
		<dc:creator>Rolf Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1600</guid>
		<description>&gt; 1. That statistical regression to the mean accounted for only a smidgen of the DK effect.

The top quartile from the 1999 paper, at least, looks dominated by &quot;regression to the mean&quot; to the point where it even overcomes the effect of positive illusions. Much more than what I would call a smidgen, at least for the 1999 paper! Or is there a better alternative explanation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; 1. That statistical regression to the mean accounted for only a smidgen of the DK effect.</p>
<p>The top quartile from the 1999 paper, at least, looks dominated by &#8220;regression to the mean&#8221; to the point where it even overcomes the effect of positive illusions. Much more than what I would call a smidgen, at least for the 1999 paper! Or is there a better alternative explanation?</p>
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		<title>By: Confusion on the Dunning-Kruger Effect &#124; danielmiessler.com</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1585</link>
		<dc:creator>Confusion on the Dunning-Kruger Effect &#124; danielmiessler.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 07:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1585</guid>
		<description>[...] still don’t think they’re quite as good as people who, you know, actually are good.via talyarkoni.orgYet another example of someone (almost) learning a cool concept and then thinking it applies to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] still don’t think they’re quite as good as people who, you know, actually are good.via talyarkoni.orgYet another example of someone (almost) learning a cool concept and then thinking it applies to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tal Yarkoni</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator>Tal Yarkoni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 03:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1578</guid>
		<description>Hi Matthew,

That&#039;s fair; you&#039;re right, I was a bit careless in my example. I wasn&#039;t really making any deep point about depression per se, but simply pointing out that changes in behavior that often get interpreted substantively by researchers may not reflect anything important about the course of depression itself, but are simply a statistical artifact. But I concede that this is viewpoint dependent to some extent; if you&#039;re someone who studies clinical depression (which I&#039;m not), you might well want to separately consider veridical changes in people&#039;s mood  from regression to the mean induced by measurement error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Matthew,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s fair; you&#8217;re right, I was a bit careless in my example. I wasn&#8217;t really making any deep point about depression per se, but simply pointing out that changes in behavior that often get interpreted substantively by researchers may not reflect anything important about the course of depression itself, but are simply a statistical artifact. But I concede that this is viewpoint dependent to some extent; if you&#8217;re someone who studies clinical depression (which I&#8217;m not), you might well want to separately consider veridical changes in people&#8217;s mood  from regression to the mean induced by measurement error.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2010/07/07/what-the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-and-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-1577</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/?p=641#comment-1577</guid>
		<description>Hi Tal,

Thanks for the link, I see your point now and I&#039;ve learned something about regression to the mean.

I do think that your last reply viz measurements as stochastic variables changing for any number of immaterial reasons is basically the position of the first commenter and me, but quite different from the position in your blog post where you devote a whole par to explaining regression to the mean for depression in terms of natural history.  It&#039;s the attempt to identify the immaterial and unidentifiable that caught our attention.  And both the examples you give in the post are repeated measures.  Clearly you understand the phenomenon better than I do, but it doesn&#039;t come through in your post for those reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tal,</p>
<p>Thanks for the link, I see your point now and I&#8217;ve learned something about regression to the mean.</p>
<p>I do think that your last reply viz measurements as stochastic variables changing for any number of immaterial reasons is basically the position of the first commenter and me, but quite different from the position in your blog post where you devote a whole par to explaining regression to the mean for depression in terms of natural history.  It&#8217;s the attempt to identify the immaterial and unidentifiable that caught our attention.  And both the examples you give in the post are repeated measures.  Clearly you understand the phenomenon better than I do, but it doesn&#8217;t come through in your post for those reasons.</p>
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